Moe Choice: Being a Digital Nomad and Achieving True Independence

[00:00:00] Scott: Hi, I'm Scott Fulton, the host of the Rebel Diaries podcast. This show will help you learn how to make work better for you, your colleagues and the organization you work for. I believe the modern workplace is broken for too many people with leaders and their teams, drowning in corporate complexity, information overload, and unnecessary levels of stress. 

[00:00:18] Scott: Having spent over 20 years leading disruptive high-performing teams who have won international awards for their impact. I've now dedicated my career to helping coach and train leaders and teams to deliver more value and impact at work whilst reducing the risk of burnout, overload, and wasted effort. 

[00:00:34] Scott: This podcast is dedicated to you and thousands like you who know work can and should be better.

[00:00:39] Scott: You'll get tips and insights from me as well as the amazing guests I invite to be the show, many of them have disrupted their industries and are thought leaders, speakers, and authors who have fascinating stories and advice to share. 

[00:00:50] Scott: Thank you for listening. I'm Scott Fulton and welcome to the Rebel Diaries show.

[00:00:54] Moe: I can call up a coaching client and say, this isn't working. I'm not the right coach for you. Take your money back, see you later, and replace them. That's not the same as saying, I have to please this client, because if I don't, then I'm not gonna be able to pay my staff or my rent or my blah, blah, blah. I don't own a car.

[00:01:12] Moe: I don't own an apartment. There's no mortgage. I don't have landlord fees. I'm a trusted house center, so I travel the country, house, city, or the world, actually. But really my version of coaching is to show them what's possible and then to ask them what they want to do about it, to inspire them or encourage them or empower them to go for that.

[00:01:33] Scott: Welcome to season three of Rebel Diaries. Moe's back. Some of you may remember earlier last year I had Moe Choice on, well, I brought him back . I really wanted to catch up with Mo we had a great time chatting last time. And, there's some eye opening stuff here. In particular, how he has found a way to live. 

[00:01:54] Scott: With no mortgage, no rental. No bills to pay. Yeah. I was surprised too. Um with a shack

[00:02:03] Scott: Hi Mo. Welcome back to the Rebel Diaries Podcast.

[00:02:06] Moe: Thanks for having me. Good to see you again.

[00:02:08] Scott: So you are kicking off season three and I enjoyed our chat so much last time. I'd like to get you back, I think we'd said we'd keep the door open for that.

[00:02:15] Scott: Yeah, very good to have you back and. Since we last spoke, I saw post, and I may have got this wrong, but I saw a post, I'm pretty sure it was on LinkedIn, that you had decided to have a bit of a reset in the new year. And I know when we last spoke you were talking about the one page plan is, have I got that right?

[00:02:34] Scott: Did you have a reset? Have you changed tact or did I misunderstand

[00:02:38] Scott: or misread?

[00:02:39] Moe: A little bit. Yeah. I dunno how much detail we went into last night. Maybe I should have listened to the podcast before I came back on this one. But the one page plan really is a framework. It's this idea that you don't need to work out your tactics before you work out your strategy and your strategy can fit on a page.

[00:02:57] Moe: That, that's the whole concept of it. And it takes time to create a one page plan. It's not, it makes it quicker. It's the opposite. It's that whole Blaze Pascal quote about, sorry about the length of my letter. I didn't have time to write a shorter one. 

[00:03:10] Scott: Oh yeah, I like that. 

[00:03:11] Moe: And it's this idea that when you strip back all the noise and you get to the fundamentals of what, where you want to go, how you want to get there and what that might look like, you can put that on a page.

[00:03:23] Moe: It's like the back of a fag packet or, I dunno if I'm allowed to say that now. Or do they still call cigarettes fags?

[00:03:27] Moe: I get told off all the time for everything I say pretty much these days. But or the napkin, which is a lot of my business

[00:03:34] Moe: ideas came drunk in a bar on a napkin when I was networking.

[00:03:37] Moe: So that's the idea. And it's, I love this concept of self-development, not shelf development. Because it's always, you got these copious amount of notes and you see them with these marketing consultants. It's always. Yeah. And it's all jargon. It's all technical jargon and, terms that are supposed to sound fancy market strategy, go to this.

[00:04:00] Moe: It's all just not, I've run businesses and you, you just need to get going and really you need a clear direction, you need a clear philosophy, and you need to just get going. As far as I. That's, I'm not saying that's the rule. I'm just saying that's how I understand life and it's the same in most industries and I've worked in a lot of industries with a lot of people.

[00:04:20] Moe: So the framework is the one page plan. The problem is no one cares about your 

[00:04:24] Scott: the one wage plan.

[00:04:25] Moe: About your framework. No one care, no one cares about the oven you're using to cook the meal 

[00:04:31] Moe: Where you got the ingredients from. Some might care. But you don't often go to a, let's go to a steakhouse, just to an annoy the vegans and say, I want to order a steak.

[00:04:41] Moe: They might tell you, oh, it's this type of beef and it's from Argentina. You, most of the time it's in one ear and out the other. And then they're not gonna tell you what oil they use to, to, grease up the pan and what they're not gonna tell you any of that stuff cuz no one cares. 

[00:04:53] Moe: So no one cared about the one page plant. And I realized that people only cared about okay I'll listen to your noise about the one page plan, but what the hell's going to happen at the end of it all?

[00:05:04] Scott: Yes, the outcome will send it for

[00:05:05] Scott: me.

[00:05:06] Moe: Yeah, and I knew this, I used to tell people this, no one cares about the plane. They care about landing in Vegas. That was always the analogy I'd use. So I thought, okay, I need to stop talking about the one page plan. I need to stop talking about things that I'm not interested in. I need to stop talking about.

[00:05:21] Moe: I need to stop talking to my niche, that concept about pick a niche and talk to them. And I just want to start talking about what, I want to talk about, the things that are interesting me, the things that I think are unique and that aren't available on LinkedIn in this case. And let's see what happens.

[00:05:38] Moe: And the concept was let the niche find me 

[00:05:41] Moe: Rather than I find the niche. And I started to think about personal branding, what it means, and really I just wanna talk about how I live my life, and if people are interested to know how, then we can talk to them. And there's a reason for that because I make my money from leadership coaching. I don't really need to market that. I've got my market, I've got my, I've got associations that provide me work and agencies, and I can pick up contracts pretty easily. I can get clients pretty easily in that space, so that's not really worth doing a. Social media or content marketing strategy for in my, or that, that's the realization that I had 

[00:06:16] Moe: My opinion, it's better to build a different audience, plus people who work career jobs and people who run serious businesses.

[00:06:25] Moe: They're not really hanging out on LinkedIn or any social media. I like those posts that CEOs make about how busy they are and how much, how little time they have And it's but you've just made 12 comments on LinkedIn. I never had time to do that when I was running businesses.

[00:06:40] Moe: So I don't, so I thought, okay who's buying leadership? HR and really that's just not a game I want to get involved with on social media. So I thought what am I gonna do on social media? Do I do nothing or do I use it to tell my story? What's my story? What's what I'm doing?

[00:06:56] Moe: So I sta so I started mapping out. Who was I two years ago? What did I know or did I not know? What skills did I have? What behaviors did I have and what do I have now? And then how did I bridge that gap? Let me talk about that. So that's what I started doing. I got so much more traction straightaway. And then solopreneurs, mainly coaches and consultants started contacting me saying, How did you build your, because I started talking about my six figure business and how I did that on my own and how I was used to building proper businesses.

[00:07:24] Moe: And it was the first time I did it on my own and how I traveled the world house sitting, which we can talk about if you want. Cuz that's a really interesting topic. And so people started reaching out to me, asking me questions, and I thought, you know what? That's what they want to know. They want to know how to live an independent free life as a solopreneur, so let me just sell that to them. And I don't mean sell as in make money, as in sell. The idea that independence is this, freedom is this. When you're a solopreneur, these are the principles I think you need to follow. And that's what I started doing. So that picked up traction in a way that actually caused the problem. Because it took up even more of my time, the consequence of that.

[00:08:02] Moe: And so I stopped posting because I just didn't have the head space for it. And so now I've come up with a different plan and I'm going to start posting again from the 5th of June regularly. And I've, so I've created a way to be able to do that. And that's all, that's, I dunno if you have any questions about that, but that's really what's happened since we last spoke. 

[00:08:19] Scott: Interesting. Yeah. So those solopreneurs that were contacting you then, is that. Turned into any business, as in you've become their coach. Is that like the end game for you 

[00:08:29] Moe: Mentor. 

[00:08:29] Scott: terms of

[00:08:30] Scott: business mentor? 

[00:08:31] Moe: Yeah, so mentoring, coaching, and then also I created a program that uses the one page plan. I call it the 216. It's 21 steps to six figures, 

[00:08:40] Scott: Okay. 

[00:08:41] Moe: it's the two 16, so it's the 21 things that I think you need to nail to. To become a I've actually got three pager on it. If you want me to give you the link and you can 

[00:08:51] Scott: Yeah, we'll put it in the show notes. 

[00:08:53] Moe: Yeah I'll send that to you. But it's I, it came down to 21 key steps, and when I say step, I mean you have to take that step to get to the next level

[00:09:02] Scott: Oh, so it is like in, they have to be done in that order in your 

[00:09:05] Moe: pretty much. I think or certainly the majority of them do. You could bulk them and say, these three you can do in any particular order or these three, you can do in any, but logically when I look at it, I think, yeah, you can, I suppose you could do the electrical drawings before you do the architectural drawings of the house, but it doesn't really matter.

[00:09:26] Moe: So it's that kind of thing where you can move them around. But ultimately the stages certainly have to be followed. 

[00:09:32] Scott: Okay. And presumably that came from your years of experience. You've looked back and thought, actually this is the same journey I took with

[00:09:39] Scott: each business. Is that. 

[00:09:40] Moe: This is this and as a solo and as a solopreneur, 

[00:09:42] Scott: Yeah. 

[00:09:43] Moe: because it's completely different, right? Solo printer, you gotta do everything. You gotta do the sales of the marketing, the operations,

[00:09:47] Moe: the finance, the admin, the branding, the whole thing. So you can 

[00:09:51] Moe: Like most people don't have the money to outsource it. 

[00:09:54] Scott: Or the trust. 

[00:09:56] Moe: Or the trust. And then if you do have the money to outsource it, you are probably not needing my help. It's probably a stage where you need an operator, you need someone to look at your systems and things like that. And there's some really cool people who do that, and I'm not really interested in that.

[00:10:11] Moe: I'm more interested in mentality mindset, and I'm very interested in the idea of independence. We spoke a little bit offline about this, but what, what is, everyone talks about freedom and independence and then I look at them and I think, but you don't have that. And you're not even designing your life or doing the things that are going to give you that.

[00:10:27] Moe: So I'm very interested in this idea of independence. And I think if I talk, the more I talk about that, the more I seem to attract solopreneurs, 

[00:10:35] Moe: Which is makes sense, right? Why would you be a solopreneur? It's to be independent. So 

[00:10:40] Scott: Can we delve into that a little bit? So that independence, you're saying you're seeing people who say they want independence or even think they've got independence,

[00:10:47] Scott: but don't. 

[00:10:49] Moe: But yeah, but they, because they've got a business with their father or brother, they've got four kids they've got a mortgage. It's so what are you independent from? Exactly. What do you mean independent? I'm working for myself. It's yeah, no, you're 

[00:11:02] Scott: I'm my own boss. 

[00:11:02] Moe: Yeah. But it's no, you're not really, are you?

[00:11:05] Moe: So if you're your own, I think if I'm my own, if I want to think about me being my own boss, then I would pay myself a great salary guarantee 28th of every month. 

[00:11:15] Moe: And most of them can't do that. And if they can do that, it's because they have to, oh, I've gotta set my schedule based on my clients, or I've got a.

[00:11:21] Moe: Or the wife wants me to go and hang out with the in-laws this weekend or whatever. And it's like everything that every, everything about that I think, that's not independence, is it? And I'm not saying you want to live that life where you're not hanging out with the in-laws and you're not with your brother doing a bit.

[00:11:37] Moe: I'm not saying that. I'm just saying why are you calling it independence?

[00:11:40] Scott: Yeah. And I wonder how tied in that is to your customers as well. Cuz I had a. I think it was a wider guy. I read cuz I, I do some web development as part of the business and my clients are great of course. But there was, I was on a forum years ago when I was looking at it and one guy said, I'm getting out of the web business web design business cuz I'm not really in charge.

[00:12:02] Scott: My client, my clients are in charge. They're like, oh, we need this on the website tomorrow. Oh, okay. And there's perception that he was running his own business and everything else, but he was just serving. And I get you serve your customers and clients, but he was completely tied to that. They called the shots on when he worked and that kind of stuff, and that just obviously wouldn't be class as

[00:12:21] Scott: independence. 

[00:12:22] Moe: Yeah, and I used to own like physical venues, so my boss was always the landlord cuz they got their rent no matter what. 

[00:12:30] Scott: Yeah, of 

[00:12:31] Moe: No matter what, they didn't care what your situation was. It's like the rent's up, pay me, or you're up. So how's that working? How's that being my own boy? It's not, it's just a nonsense.

[00:12:41] Moe: It's just something people tell themselves to make themselves feel, 

[00:12:44] Scott: yeah. 

[00:12:44] Moe: Bigger. And this is a classic problem I found with solo printer. Like you'd be a great makeup artist or a great hairdresser or a great chef, and you turn around and say, why am I making this guy money? I'm just gonna go and run my own makeup studio.

[00:12:57] Moe: And it's But you are not then doing makeup. You're doing admin and operations and finance and business development, but you're not, you're, how do you know you're any good at that? And they're not good. They're not, 

[00:13:06] Moe: And that's why most of them failed. And it's a classic misconception. They'll look at the boss and they'll say, he's making all the money, and they don't understand business.

[00:13:14] Moe: A lot of these, they'll see, a hundred pound coming in the till, and I think that a hundred pounds going into my pocket, and it's it's not going into my pocket, even if I get a quid unlucky. And you are getting your salary first anyway.

[00:13:22] Scott: Yeah.

[00:13:23] Moe: Yeah.

[00:13:24] Scott: so I, yeah, it's just interesting that kind of perception. I go, oh, that's easy. Why should the boss. It looks easy. I can do that. And I spoke to another guest a few episodes ago and we were talking about a similar thing in corporates where suddenly someone's really good at doing the job, whatever it is, I dunno.

[00:13:40] Scott: Designing widgets, and then, oh, you are good at designing widgets. You can be the leader of the team that designs widgets. And then, oh. Oh dear. I don't actually, now to lead a team I wanna design widgets. I can't do that anymore. They've made me the person telling people to

[00:13:54] Scott: design widgets. 

[00:13:55] Moe: Now. Now here's where I tell the person, I say, it's your fault for accepting the, you saw the money and the status, and you went and jumped in the job without really understanding what. You know what I mean? So yeah, you can say the boss is the idiot or the company's the idiot for moving you. They have a term for that in Silicon Valley, they call them rock stars, the ones that you're supposed to rockstar.

[00:14:16] Moe: Doesn't mean bonjovi. Rockstar means you, you are solid as a rock. So I'm going to keep you where you are as if you are a rock. 

[00:14:23] Scott: Ah, 

[00:14:24] Moe: We're not gonna

[00:14:25] Moe: move you,

[00:14:26] Moe: You are staying where you are.

[00:14:28] Scott: And you'll get people that are quite happy with that. But you probably get, and there's, again, there's that societal pressure or par pressure from parents that you should progress in your career constantly. You should get promoted and, but some people are just quite happy. I've worked in the police before, that's no secret.

[00:14:43] Scott: And there were police officers that just were a pc, the basic level for their high whole career for 20 years. And they were happy. But there was this expectation, oh, you must go up through the ranks. And it's no, cuz then that means I'm not in contact with the public as much. I'm not out and about.

[00:14:58] Scott: I'm in an office more. I'm, yeah. It's interesting that,

[00:15:01] Moe: handling PC's problems 

[00:15:04] Scott: yeah. 

[00:15:04] Moe: as their supervisor. And this is just it. And if I was interested in becoming a team leader and I wasn't, so if I was interviewing you, For this job or I was proposing this job to you, I'd want to see proof that you are interested in leading people. What books have you read?

[00:15:22] Moe: What courses have you done? How come you've never come to HR and said, I want some development on people skills or conflict management or performance management so you know the people that are interested and often, the people that came to me, And said to me, I want a promotion.

[00:15:38] Moe: What do I have to do? That's the best. Oh, that's music to my ears. When I was running businesses, cuz they'd come and say to me, what do I have to do to get a promotion? And I told them, you'd have to get some this skills and you'd have to prove you're doing this and maybe I can find a project for you and then you can test yourself out there.

[00:15:53] Scott: So what does independence really look like then

[00:15:56] Scott: for you? 

[00:15:57] Moe: So this is really interesting because I came up with this 90 day rule that. If I decided today, 21st of May I'm not sure if I'm supposed to give the date away, but 21st of May, let's,

[00:16:11] Scott: Your episode goes live tomorrow, so that's fine.

[00:16:13] Moe: okay. Guess release two years from now or something. Okay. So if I say 21st of May, 90 days from now, whatever the hell day that's gonna be, 20th of August or whatever it is, I want to be able to sit on my ass for as long as I want and do nothing.

[00:16:28] Moe: And have no legal ram, there's no legal ramifications, there's no financial ramifications, there's no one's upset, no one's pissed off, there's no fallout. How do I get, how do I get to that? That's one of the criteria. I don't think it's a criteria for independence. Maybe that's the wrong word, but it's one of the things that tells me I have independence, so I'm not silly to say, oh, I want nine minutes to be able to just break free of everything, cuz that's just not.

[00:16:52] Moe: Reasonable. And I want to be able to, if I'm doing a project or I'm handling a coaching client or whatever, I want to be able to either close it off or hand it over or whatever it is. So what does that look like? How do I get into 90 days? Will that the contracts I negotiate, the type of work I accept, the type of places I live, the type of cars that I rent, the deals that I do for that the things that I buy.

[00:17:14] Moe: Are they all 90 day returnable? 

[00:17:17] Moe: 90 day, 90 day breakable, if that's the right word. 

[00:17:21] Moe: And if I have that's a good sign that I've got independence. The other and that's we're talking operational independence. Maybe that's a good way of thinking about it. And then, but then you've got the other, you've got the emotional independence and the, financial independence.

[00:17:36] Moe: So financial, so we could talk about clients. You would talk about the web, right? So I'm reliant on my clients, yes. But I can say, I can call up a coaching client and say, this isn't working. I'm not the right coach for you. Take your money back, see you later, and replace them. 

[00:17:50] Moe: That's not the same as saying, I have to please this client, because if I don't, then I'm not gonna be able to pay my staff or my rent or my blah, blah, blah tomorrow. 

[00:17:59] Moe: That's another sign of independence that I can tell a customer, no, I can turn down work. I can take a three month break and come back and pick up where I left off,

[00:18:09] Scott: And presumably though that must be linked into having some level of financial stability

[00:18:14] Scott: or,

[00:18:14] Scott: not having that many financial commitments that,

[00:18:17] Moe: Yeah. 

[00:18:18] Scott: and we were talking before we started, weren't we? About you would you count yourself, clash yourself as a minimalist then in terms of you just don't have much, you said you know what you don't

[00:18:27] Scott: buy rather than what you do buy. 

[00:18:28] Moe: I'm definitely not a minimalist because when I watch the documentary about the minimalists, they've literally got like a laptop bag with everything they own in it. So there's no way I'm like that. I'm more of a suitcase than a carry on. Type, but I honestly only own what I need. So I've got my tools of trade, my laptop, my phone.

[00:18:47] Moe: I've got a couple of gadgets that help like my extra battery charger and things like that because I'm on the road quite a bit like a second screen, things like that. Tools of trade, and that'll fill into, fit into a lap a carry-on bag. Like your standard airplane carryon bag, and that's tools of trade.

[00:19:01] Moe: So if I'm working, that's enough for me. And then I've got five of these t-shirts, one of each color, couple of pairs of jeans, couple of trail, couple of shoes. I don't have any suits anymore. But I'm the same size as my dad, so if I need it to go to a funeral or a wedding, I'll just borrow something off him, although it's very old fashioned, but I don't care.

[00:19:20] Moe: Yeah, so clothes and by the way, if you take out, so if I lived in a warm climate, like if I move back to Dubai, I can get rid of half my clothes because I don't need the jackets and the jumpers and the willy and the gloves and all that stuff. So really the only reason I've got a suitcase full of clothes is I've got my winter and my summer.

[00:19:36] Scott: Yeah, cuz you're in the uk. UK

[00:19:38] Scott: climate. 

[00:19:39] Moe: So if I decided to settle in a warm climate, That's warm. Most of the time I could, because in Dubai I had nothing. I had a couple of linen trousers, couple of linen short sleeved shirts and that was it really. So yeah, I don't like stuff, 

[00:19:53] Moe: And that's definitely helps, right? I don't own a car, I don't own an apartment.

[00:19:58] Moe: I don't have to pay. I don't, there's no mortgage, there's no, I don't have to pay, I don't have landlord fees. I'm a trusted house sitter, so I travel the country house sitting, or the world actually. So I 

[00:20:09] Scott: Yeah, can you tell us about that a bit? So you're literally just fine people. Could you look after my house while I'm on holiday and then you move on to the next one

[00:20:16] Scott: when they get back?

[00:20:17] Moe: yeah. And I'm fully booked till, oh, a year, 21st of May, 2024.

[00:20:23] Moe: They come back. The last house that I've booked,

[00:20:25] Scott: Wow. Is there like a website where 

[00:20:27] Moe: there's loads. There's loads, but the one I use is trusted house sitters. But I've been doing it for 18 months now. And most I've got return business. 

[00:20:36] Scott: Huh. 

[00:20:36] Moe: So most of them will say, can you come back next year? And they mostly go similar times. And so I'll agree with them, which is why I've got like most of my sits next year are return sits from this year.

[00:20:50] Moe: It 

[00:20:51] Scott: Wow. 

[00:20:51] Moe: So no. So no bills, no utilities.

[00:20:55] Scott: Very good. So that obviously you just, you don't get paid, but you just get to look after the house and use their bills. You use their electric and gas,

[00:21:02] Scott: et cetera. 

[00:21:03] Moe: Yeah, some of them gimme their supplies. I have this rule where I'll bring my own dishwasher tablets and my 

[00:21:09] Scott: Yeah. 

[00:21:09] Moe: washing up liquid and all this, because it's just, one of the things I, this is one of the reasons I'm assuming I get a return sits, is because I say to them, look, I'll use my own stuff, plus some of their stuff isn't good quality and I like good quality product produce.

[00:21:23] Moe: But 

[00:21:23] Scott: And what about

[00:21:24] Scott: pets? 

[00:21:24] Moe: So most of them have pets.

[00:21:26] Scott: Okay. And that's part of, that would be one of the advantages for them, rather than having to put the

[00:21:30] Scott: pets into kennels. 

[00:21:31] Moe: So I've had a couple words, security only. But that's a really hard sell. Imagine putting up listing on a website and saying, we're worried about the security. I'll ask, can you come and stay in? It's I dunno, anyone I dunno. This area I've got, no, you know what, if you've got an ex murderer, ex-husband or something.

[00:21:44] Moe: Like what do you mean security that? So there's been a couple of those. One of which I took one of, one of them, I didn't some of them have cats that just do what they want. So all you need to do is top up the the cat litter and if, to be honest, they have kids and neighbors who can do that.

[00:21:58] Moe: So I think those are more the security ones. But also the cat wants to come and have a snuggle on the sofa at night and things like that. So it's sometimes they think we want the cat to have the same experience they have when we are here, but the dogs obviously need a walk and need food to be fed properly every twice a day and all that kind of stuff.

[00:22:14] Moe: But I love dogs and and that's how a friend of mine, she said to me, can you look after my dog? I said, sure. She said, do you want to come and stay in my flat? Or do you want me to bring the dot? And I said, I'll come and stay in your flat. That's easier. She goes, yeah, it's easier because of blah, blah, blah.

[00:22:28] Moe: So after the sit, she came back and she said to me, why don't you do trust? I said, I love dear, I'd do this for a living. I said something like that. And she goes why don't you just sign up to Trusted House? Its, and I was like, what are you talking about? And she told me what the business was and I said, you are having me.

[00:22:42] Moe: There's no way that business exists. And actually if you came and offered me this idea 10 years ago, I would've left you out outta the office. There's no way I would've invested in this. They've got something like 64,000 members, and the members are paying at least a hundred quid a year. Some 200 quid. 

[00:22:59] Scott: To be listed on there.

[00:23:00] Moe: Yeah. I pay the 200 quid. Why? Cuz I'm fully insured. So if I blow the house up, Or I run my car through their thing by accident or whatever. It's fully covered, pretty much up to whatever it is, 5 million quid. And if they decide to say no last minute, they'll put me up in a hotel for 10 days, up to 10 days in the area I'm in so that I'm not stuck.

[00:23:19] Moe: So little things like that, and it's just an extra a hundred quid a year for me. It's just a no, no-brainer really. 

[00:23:24] Scott: It's a bit of a

[00:23:24] Scott: nomad then. 

[00:23:25] Moe: yeah, so there's digital, so that's the other thing I do. I've got friends from all over the world. Luckily because of my my businesses from before and also my reputation and also because of where I came from, the Middle East.

[00:23:36] Moe: A lot of people now live all over the world because they go to wherever they can get a passport. So I get to meet and because I love kids and we were talking about this offline also. I don't want kids, but I love kids. I really do like I'd hang out with the kids, not the adults. 

[00:23:50] Moe: And, I'll tell you why.

[00:23:52] Moe: A, they show me things. They show me things that I don't know. Whereas adults talk about how much money they made and what deal they did and or they'll just bitch about someone they have no idea about or that's the general topics in groups. Maybe I need better friends, I don't know. But but 

[00:24:07] Scott: their curiosity's kind of gone, isn't it? Whereas if you've dealing with kids, it's just questions

[00:24:13] Scott: and

[00:24:13] Moe: And they'll pointer

[00:24:15] Moe: and they'll point out things that I do wrong or I do strange. So they'll go, why'd you say that way? Or Why'd you do that? And I'm like, that's a good question. Why do I do that? Or and they'll show me things, technology, and they'll show me what's popular on YouTube and they'll show me what.

[00:24:28] Moe: What the latest TikTok fad is, and they'll show me these games that, that have been developed. I think how the hell do they do that? So it's just really, plus they're fun. They're fun. They've got a good sense of humor. They're wi, there was always, there was this guy, I can't remember his name, he was very funny.

[00:24:40] Moe: He always said, they're small, they're not stupid. And about kids. And it's it's true. And I get to influence them as well, which is, I think, One of the, my purpose is to influence people in some way, to live their own life, to be their them themselves. 

[00:24:55] Moe: Just be yourself. Who, what are you interested in?

[00:24:57] Moe: What do you wanna talk about? What do you agree with? What do you just do that?

[00:25:00] Moe: I try to get them up to speak to the group cuz it's, no one ever got me to do that. And it's one of the scariest things to do.

[00:25:06] Moe: And the only way to get past it is to keep doing it right and then to learn some of the things that you can do. And like sometimes their mates will start giggling or they throw comments out and it will put them off track. And almost every time I'll look at the person and say, look at me, they've got no idea what you want. They've got no idea how much potential you've got, and they're not gonna help you get it right. So just do what you, and it's unbelievable that when I do that, they just go bang, and they go into exactly what they want to do. They completely forget what's going on over there.

[00:25:34] Moe: It's unbelievable the power of that, and I think that's what real coaching is. I know that they have this definition, the ICF of coaching of, essentially what they're saying is you allow the coachee, the client to explore their own thoughts and all this stuff. But really my version of coaching is to show them what's possible and then to ask them what they want to do about it and to inspire them or encourage them or empower them to go for that. 

[00:25:58] Moe: I like that definition of coaching.

[00:26:00] Scott: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really helpful, isn't it? Cuz Yeah. Otherwise they'll limit themselves and they'll have blinkers on

[00:26:07] Scott: and 

[00:26:08] Moe: And no one ever 

[00:26:09] Scott: and nudge them, but if you don't show them

[00:26:10] Scott: what's possible,

[00:26:11] Moe: and no one ever asked me, no one ever sat and said, they did what you want, but it's usually because whatever I say, they're gonna say no, actually what you want is this. 

[00:26:19] Moe: There was never an, I call them honest questions. An honest question is I'm gonna ask you a question so you, that you tell me the answer and I know now more about you, not so that I can then tell you my opinion. 

[00:26:28] Moe: That's not an honest

[00:26:29] Moe: question. 

[00:26:30] Scott: Yeah. Yeah. That made me think of, oh, what's the phrase I was, get it wrong. Is it listen to hear or

[00:26:36] Moe: It's 

[00:26:36] Scott: don't listen, to hear, or to understand? Not

[00:26:39] Scott: to respond. Is that, 

[00:26:40] Moe: yeah. In, in one of the trainings I used to do, it's listen to not listen four. Are you listening for an opportunity to give your opinion? Are you listening for an opportunity to interrupt? Are you listening for an opportunity to contradict or for an opportunity? Or are you listening to what's being said?

[00:26:55] Moe: And I really like that contrast cuz it's exactly right. Most people listen for, like they'll come in and go, what'd you think of a football yesterday? It's you just want to tell me what you think,

[00:27:05] Scott: Yeah. You're prompting a

[00:27:07] Moe: a discussion, and you don't even know if I want to have

[00:27:09] Moe: it. 

[00:27:10] Scott: You can see, you can pick up, I've had it before when I'm having a conversation, so with somebody usually at work and. You can see they're just waiting to give their answer and they're not actually listening to what you're saying. And quite often the answer comes, or their response is you clearly won't listen to what I just said cuz you wouldn't have given the answer.

[00:27:27] Scott: But in their head, they're holding that I'm ready to give us answer. I'm ready to give us answer and not

[00:27:31] Scott: actually listen to you.

[00:27:32] Moe: it's like they're, they've memorized their lines and they don't wanna forget them. 

[00:27:35] Scott: Yeah.

[00:27:35] Scott: But then the lines become relevant in the minute

[00:27:37] Scott: you've been talking.

[00:27:39] Moe: Yeah. And that's often the question I'll ask, right? I'll say, why do you care about, why'd you care about what anyone else did? Like why? And it's I think there is a big part of speaking my mind, or my opinion, or my point of view, cuz I'm not clear on it. And what I do is I try to explore, cuz I think thinking is verbalizing or writing or mapping. I don't think thinking Terrence McKenna right said you think you're thinking, but you're just listening to what's already in here. 

[00:28:13] Scott: Okay. 

[00:28:14] Moe: That's not

[00:28:15] Moe: thinking you're tuning into something that you've already thought. That's not thinking, that's just 

[00:28:20] Moe: Right? Thinking is you're bringing new information in, something like that. I'm oversimplifying it, but you're bringing new information in and then you know, burning off some of the assumptions that you made that aren't true anymore or untangling some of the things that confuse you and coming up with a new perspective that's better.

[00:28:37] Moe: And what I mean by better is. It allows you to position yourself in a more direct way to where you want to be. So it allows you to aim better 

[00:28:46] Moe: At where, at what you want. And often people dunno what they want. So that's already the problem. That's problem number one is, I dunno where I'm going.

[00:28:52] Moe: I dunno why I want, I dunno what the point is. And then problem two is how do I get their problem threes, what do I do next? It's that kind of thing. And I think most of the time when I want to give you my opinion, Or a lot of times when I want to give you my opinion, it's because I'm still trying to work out my opinion 

[00:29:08] Scott: Okay. 

[00:29:09] Moe: and often verbalizing it. I don't need you to even say anything back because I'll burn off the lies, if I want of a better word. I'll burn off the untruths as I speak them. I'll go, oh, that's not actually right. You, we've all done it where you say something and actually that's not true. Why did I just say that?

[00:29:25] Moe: Or it's cuz you've, it's cuz you've brought some ideas together that weren't structured and as you tried to structure them, you realized that it didn't fit. Or maybe it's your intuition telling you that's BOLs. It's that feeling that tells you that's wrong. And so you okay? And I think that's really an important trait.

[00:29:39] Moe: That's part of the freedom of speech 

[00:29:41] Scott: so it's like thinking out loud then. So it is get it out there and, but you've gotta have a level of self-awareness, I'd imagine, to be able to. Behave in that way and not be fearful of

[00:29:51] Scott: being judged and, 

[00:29:53] Moe: Yeah. It goes back to the thing about what are we supposed to do? And I'm supposed to do this and I'm supposed to do that. I'm not supposed to think out. And the funny thing is, what I'm saying is it's not thinking out loud. It's not thinking if it's not out loud. 

[00:30:04] Scott: right. 

[00:30:04] Moe: Jo, Joan Didion the author, she said, I don't know what I think until I write it down. 

[00:30:09] Scott: Okay. 

[00:30:10] Moe: That's what she meant. That's why writing's so powerful, right? Because you, you don't have to but even, if you heard of the rubber ducky concept 

[00:30:18] Scott: Possibly but gone. 

[00:30:19] Moe: man, product management, I dunno what, I dunno, history of it. It's a very 

[00:30:22] Scott: I should, cuz I, I was a long running product manager, have but gone.

[00:30:25] Moe: So product manager, you get loads of people coming and asking you questions.

[00:30:29] Moe: No. From lots of 

[00:30:30] Scott: Asking for their priorities and

[00:30:31] Scott: Yeah. Everything's a priority. 

[00:30:33] Moe: and you've got your priorities and you can't bloody do them cause you keep answering. So there's this idea about, okay, you put the rubber ducky on the shelf and anyone who comes to you say, go talk to the rubber ducky first. And then if the rubber ducky doesn't help you, then come and see me.

[00:30:45] Moe: And that alleviates half the questions already. Because as they're explaining themselves to the rubber duckie, you'll see it in interviews, please make your questions short. You know the speakers only, we got 15 minutes for C. Please make your questions short. It's succinct and we'll try to get as many there.

[00:31:00] Moe: And you'll see the person trying to think of the question verbally out loud. You'll see it all the time. I dunno if you go to live talks. I go to live talks loads, and it happens every single time. Where they're trying to structure their que, that's their thinking. 

[00:31:15] Moe: I think the awareness you, I think the self-awareness is being able to think silently.

[00:31:21] Moe: I think you need a hell of a lot of self-awareness to do that, cuz what you're doing is you're bringing diff, you're bringing in different information from different ideas in your head and re remembering them. In different ways so that you can start to see things in a different way. That I think takes an incredible mental capacity and awareness to be able to do that.

[00:31:42] Scott: Interesting. So what's next for you then, in terms of what you, are you just seeing how it goes, seeing how it pans out? It be, I think you said you're launching something. Is that something new and

[00:31:52] Scott: different that you're launching soon? 

[00:31:53] Moe: Yeah, we're running the the pilot, would it be called a pilot? We're running the pilot version. 

[00:31:58] Scott: Okay. 

[00:31:59] Moe: And then we launch 3rd of August, the first proper one. And I want to do two of these a year cuz there's 21 steps in 21 weeks. So I give them the step and then we meet a week later, discuss what happened, and then I give them the next step.

[00:32:13] Moe: So it's 21 weeks, so it's a good five months. So I only wanna be doing that twice a year. Maybe I can do two concurrently. I don't know yet. It just depends how popular it is, so next year's plans to do that twice a year to carry on with my coaching and my leadership training I'm thinking of doing.

[00:32:28] Moe: I came up with this idea for a podcast. 

[00:32:30] Moe: And I say to every solopreneur, why I say to anyone, but every solopreneur you want your one page plan, your solopreneur plan, like what are you going to do the next 12 months? I have this idea of doing a podcast with solopreneurs, six figure and beyond. To talk about their one page plan verbally, and then we produce it at the end for people to be able to download.

[00:32:51] Moe: So this would be Scott's one page plan, and we'd have the discussion about where are you heading? Why and why is that important? What are your principles and what are your main goals? I thought that would be a really cool idea too. So I want to, it would, right? 

[00:33:02] Scott: Yeah.

[00:33:03] Moe: But so podcast I'm interested in, newsletter I'm interested in, although I want to make it a video. Newsletter. So I want to do like a seven minute video every week giving something that I learned this week in my solopreneur journey, something I learned about LinkedIn, something I learned about podcasting, something I learned about money, something I learned about house sitting, and just to do.

[00:33:23] Moe: Here's a seven minute video. This is why I'm bringing you this video this week, and this is how I came up with the idea and this is what it is that I think you can find useful. So I want, so there's all these things about I want to do, but it's like execution. I can come up with the ideas. It, but it's, how the hell do I execute it?

[00:33:39] Moe: And usually I need head space for that. So trusted house sitters. It took me a good three months to execute that because I had to understand it and I reached out to people and I tried to get ahold of the trusted house sitters team to ask them questions. So I, when I do something, I go in fully into that.

[00:33:54] Scott: Right. 

[00:33:55] Moe: So yeah, I have to decide what the priorities are. And also I'm going for my master's accreditation in, in, in the, with the icf which is the highest. Coaching accreditation. So I'm going for that as well this year. So that's really it. And just to maintain my, oh, and I'm doing my first six months global house sitting, so all I've done for 18 months is the uk so I'm doing my, so I'm doing North America, central America, and Australia.

[00:34:19] Moe: Which, yeah, which is I think a good place to start the international ones. And then I'll start doing a bit more. I'll be a bit more risky, let's say, with my choices after that. So that's it really. And just to live, I want to get to seven figures now. I've been on six figures for two years as an income.

[00:34:36] Moe: I want to get to seven figures and I'm trying to figure out how, but I also don't want to, I want to enjoy my life, and if I can sustain this type of income, I don't really need anymore. So it's really about how do I maximize my impact, which is why I was thinking about the podcast and the newsletter and things like that.

[00:34:54] Moe: And the course. So yeah, I'm on my way to Inde. I'm at Independence. I think now there's still a few things that maybe I can not be as determined by. So it's continuing to work on total independence, increasing my reach. And the impact I can make and then achieving mastery in my chosen field of coaching and in my personal branding.

[00:35:20] Moe: I suppose that's a lot really, if you think about it. It's a lot of work. So it's really just about wha Scott, my whole life, I've been distracted by opportunity. Shiny object syndrome, I think it is, although I'm not a hundred percent familiar with that term, but it's like Scott comes to me and says, oh, Moe, I've got an idea for his part.

[00:35:37] Moe: Okay, yeah, let's go do that. And then, and then Michael comes to me and says, I've got this project that I think, oh yeah, let's go do that. 

[00:35:43] Scott: Positive

[00:35:43] Scott: procrastination.

[00:35:45] Moe: oh, is it? Is that what it is? Yeah. So well the interesting thing is I went and did it though those things. That's why I started so many businesses and did so many things.

[00:35:51] Moe: So this is the first time in my life where I haven't been distracted, and it's not through willpower. I think it's because I'm on the path I want to be on. And actually, I'm really clear. On what kind of life I want to live. Now is a good time for me to get rich and famous because I don't think I'll be corrupted by that.

[00:36:10] Moe: I think that's a good way of thinking about it. Whereas five years ago, if I got rich and famous, or 10 years ago, I might have, I wasn't clear on my principles exactly in my philosophy and what I wanted and what was important for me. So if anyone wants to make me rich and famous, now's a good time.

[00:36:24] Scott: Brilliant. So I ask all my guests, I asked you this last time you, I can't remember what you chose. So if you had one book you could take with you to a desert island,

[00:36:33] Scott: what would it be? 

[00:36:34] Moe: that's a really

[00:36:35] Moe: good question. I read a book that absolutely blew my mind a couple of months ago called The Courage to Teach and. And I'd love to read it again, but I dunno if I take that to a desert island. But if anyone's involved in anything to do with training, teaching, coaching, facilitation, I would highly recommend you read that book. It's just really fantastic. But in terms of what I would take on a d if I'm stuck on a desert island, was that the,

[00:37:00] Scott: Yeah. For the rest of your life.

[00:37:01] Moe: for the rest of my life, one book?

[00:37:03] Moe: Bloody Hell. Is that what you asked me

[00:37:05] Moe: last time? 

[00:37:06] Scott: yep. 

[00:37:06] Moe: I wonder what I did say last time. Oh, do you know what, I dunno if this counts. Can I, can it be an audiobook?

[00:37:14] Scott: Yeah 

[00:37:15] Moe: It's called The Ultimate Jim Roh. I loved Jim roh. And I really recommend everyone listen to him cuz he's just fantastic. Even his just delivery, not just his content. And there's a book I found on Audible called The Ultimate Jim Roan Library, and it's a collection of all his main workshops and seminars.

[00:37:32] Moe: And I listened to that a lot. I got it a few years ago and I listened to it a lot. So I. Especially if I'm on my own, I'd probably get that, I'd probably take that book with me because it would help me figure out what the hell I'm going to do. That and that, or the courage to teach if I'm, if it has to be a book, reading book and a proper book, courage to Teach, I think I would take, that's the one on my mind right now.

[00:37:54] Scott: Great. Brilliant. 

[00:37:55] Moe: yeah. 

[00:37:56] Scott: Great. So if anyone wants to work with you, what's the best way to, for them to get a hold of you or anyone needs your help?

[00:38:01] Moe: LinkedIn so you can Google me as mo Choice m OE Choice, and you'll find there's only one MO choice and you'll find me on active mainly on LinkedIn. I'm trying to get back into Twitter now, although that's more for my perspective on the world rather than work related. 

[00:38:17] Moe: Purely work related.

[00:38:19] Moe: You'll find me on Facebook as well. So that's where you can find me. But LinkedIn, if you want to get ahold of me, you can get ahold of me there and you'll find my website and all that stuff there. And also I'll give you the link to the 21 steps to six figures. It's just a short Google doc cuz so many people asked me, I was like, I'll just give you the doc.

[00:38:34] Moe: Cuz I don't teach you that. I guide you through it. So really to give you the information is my pleasure. And so if people want to download that I'll send you the link. They can download it. And yeah, and you'll get a couple of videos to help you through it as well. So that would be the best place to get

[00:38:49] Moe: ahold of me. 

[00:38:49] Scott: Brilliant. It's been awesome chatting to as ever, Mo, and inspiring. Thanks for being on the show. 

[00:38:55] Moe: Thank you so much. 

[00:38:56] Scott: A big, thank you for listening to the Rebel Diaries show your time is precious, so it is appreciated. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to hit that subscribe button in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss the next one. There's a new episode every Monday morning, ideal for your commute to work or early morning walk. 

[00:39:13] Scott: Until next time, take care be a rebel and deliver work with impact.