[00:00:00] Scott: Hi, I'm Scott Fulton, the host of the Rebel Diaries podcast. This show will help you learn how to make work better for you, your colleagues and the organization you work for. I believe the modern workplace is broken for too many people with leaders and their teams, drowning in corporate complexity, information overload, and unnecessary levels of stress. 

[00:00:18] Scott: Having spent over 20 years leading disruptive high-performing teams who have won international awards for their impact. I've now dedicated my career to helping coach and train leaders and teams to deliver more value and impact at work whilst reducing the risk of burnout, overload, and wasted effort. 

[00:00:34] Scott: This podcast is dedicated to you and thousands like you who know work can and should be better.

[00:00:39] Scott: You'll get tips and insights from me as well as the amazing guests I invite to be the show, many of them have disrupted their industries and are thought leaders, speakers, and authors who have fascinating stories and advice to share. 

[00:00:50] Scott: Thank you for listening. I'm Scott Fulton and welcome to the Rebel Diaries show. ()

[00:00:54] Milena: Mental health crisis, loneliness, crisis, obesity crisis stress crisis, burnout crisis. And so obviously what we are doing isn't necessarily working. 

[00:01:06] Milena: I'm gonna be very vulnerable here and say that I used to have that philosophy with my own team I'll train them and if they don't, I'm not willing to put in the work that it takes, then I'll just hire someone else.

[00:01:18] Milena: There was a meta report on the American Dream is looking at external factors money does that really bring you happiness Does that bring you wellbeing versus intrinsic motivating factors such as purpose and autonomy and flexibility

Milena created the unhealthful movement which champions human centric living working and rebel leadership this is an area that's right up my street so it was great to have her on the show and to share our discussion with you

[00:01:46] Scott: Hi Melaina. Welcome to the Rebel Diaries podcast. 

[00:01:50] Milena: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:51] Scott: To help our listeners, could you just. Tell us a bit about your career journey.

[00:01:55] Scott: What, get started and what led you to do what you 

[00:01:59] Milena: so 

[00:02:02] Scott: are

[00:02:03] Milena: days. um, originally from Bulgaria, I came to the US to. Pursue the American Dream, uh, and complete an MBA in international marketing. And with my love for skiing in the mountains, I ended up in Lake Tahoe. Beautiful place. Uh, ended up being a marketing director for a ski resort for a decade.

[00:02:21] Milena: Got played to, uh, got paid to play, so to speak. Uh, love that job and eventually I have an entrepreneurial spirit in me, so I decided to start my own marketing agency, which I know you're very familiar with that and how that goes. Which led to a lot of hustling, which led me at some point in time to have a bit of an existential crisis and say, is there all there is?

[00:02:43] Milena: Is there other things we could be doing better the way we work, better, the way we live in a more meaningful, more fulfilling and more impactful way? I'm still very much so type a entrepreneur, but I, how do we do this so they actually make sense for the bottom line as well as for our lives, and which led me to start unhustle.

[00:03:04] Milena: As an attempt to A, see for myself how to do it, and b, inspire other people and teams into this different approach of living and working, which is, um, more meaningful and, and more impactful at the end. 

[00:03:22] Scott: So how long's 

[00:03:25] Milena: And has been 

[00:03:27] Scott: un Hussle 

[00:03:28] Milena: under the pandemic. It started originally with retreats because we discovered this beautiful place where I'm at the moment, Baha, California, sir. So I was thinking, okay, I'm, I'm gonna just take some people away from their, their. Ordinary life and get them to experience some of these new ways.

[00:03:47] Milena: The way I was looking into many meditation, mindfulness, uh, biohacking, time in nature, increased awareness, high consciousness, more focus, um, and creativity. And then the pandemic happened really quickly though actually. Um, the pandemic, I wouldn't say impacted the business that much because I quickly realized these, uh, people from over the world that are attracted to this message.

[00:04:12] Milena: It's not just really, um, just Americans or just West Coast. So the retreat is still a component of the business and the business offering, but also there's a, a very strong online component and it's fun to connect with people from all over the world. Uh, Individuals as well as teams. So I transitioned into, with my previous online marketing experience real quickly back into online.

[00:04:35] Milena: So I didn't really have a chance to do a full-time, um, physical business only. But yeah, it's been going on for four years.

[00:04:45] Scott: That's great. So you mentioned quite a few areas there. So what, what's the sort of customer that you, you're dealing with? Are they just like burnt out? Have they just had enough? Are they

[00:04:56] Scott: improve career or is it a mix of all of those or more?

[00:04:59] Milena: Yeah on the marketing, finance, um, high stress food jobs. Who are exhausted, they're burnout, they're stressed out, and basically there's either lack of work life balance or searching for more purpose and meaning, searching for ways that they can, um, still do what they're passionate about, doing work-wise, and provide for their families and, and do what they enjoy, but at the same time have a little bit more fun and have a little bit better health, better wellbeing, better mental health.

[00:05:37] Milena: On the organizational side, it's normally teams who, um, want to improve, increase their resilience, engagement, and, um, performance overall. So they're searching for ways to, um, introduce more wellbeing aspect, um, and elements into the workspace. Make it more human-centric culture instead of hustle culture, and at the same time maintain or increase the bottom line. Again, again, very much. Um, tech, finance, marketing primarily who I work with.

[00:06:14] Scott: And that that hustle culture. My interpretation of that would be, you know, putting in the long hours, sleeping on the floor, you know, maybe that's a bit extreme, but you know, a bit like you're hearing in the moment with Elon Musk and Twitter and that kind of just like slave to the, to the company. Is that, that's probably an extreme example, but is that still pretty

[00:06:36] Scott: in, in those industries that you are, you are seeing.

[00:06:40] Milena: Yeah I mean there's still a huge level of burnout uh in these industries. There's, you know, unmanageable workloads, too much information flowing away. Not enough time for deep work. Uh, too many meetings and yeah, people, you know, cognitive. Abilities deteriorate because people don't have time to take breaks or they just, uh, are not even aware that they should be taking breaks.

[00:07:04] Milena: Um, they show up exhausted, tired, sleep deprived. So their focus is not where it needs to be. Adding some 12 hours zoom meetings, they don't really have time to get their work done. So I don't know if they're sleeping on the floor in the office, you know? But, um, there's definitely a tendency to overwork. To burnout, um, chronic stress, which result in burnout.

[00:07:32] Milena: So the, I had high hopes that the pandemic would really disrupt that hustle culture. now with everything that's coming back with layoffs, with, you know, concerns about recession and people feeling just anxious and uncertain, that tendency to work. You know, if, if half of your company gets laid off, then the other half that is staying is pretty concerned about their own safety, right?

[00:08:00] Milena: So without that psychological safety, it's really hard to, um, give it all at work. Right, so the hustle culture, it's still well and alive and unfortunately from what I'm seeing from my research, as you and I are talking, I'm working on my book. It's kind of scary what's going on because it's, you know, we have a mental health crisis in, I'm speaking about America, but.

[00:08:24] Milena: Mental health crisis, loneliness, crisis, obesity crisis, um, stress crisis, burnout crisis. And so obviously what we are doing isn't necessarily working. And, and I'm concerned for not, not just for our own wellbeing and happiness and, and kind of enjoyment of life, but also for overall progress of what we, what are we doing, you know, it's just not sustainable on so many levels.

[00:08:52] Scott: Yeah, I was, I was gonna ask, and you've, you've covered it. Is it worse since the pandemic, I guess, you know, people are now, a lot more people are working from home, maybe getting lonely, missing that team environment, but also, as you said, with layoffs. And people worried about their jobs. I guess the, the work doesn't go away either.

[00:09:12] Scott: Does it? Are, are you seeing managers are still expecting a smaller workforce to do the same amount of work that's putting people under even more pressure, maybe even themselves, to say, I've really the long hours or I'm gonna be out

[00:09:23] Milena: can Um on

[00:09:26] Scott: mean there's a lot of different answers I can 

[00:09:28] Milena: give you there. Um, on one side what I'm seeing is that, um, there's a bit of a. Awakening and a bit more awareness about not necessarily being so addicted to other work, because some people could actually lean into, into that concept of work and which is, you know, work, work, work.

[00:09:45] Milena: Because they're trying to shy away from dealing with. Emotions or stress or depression or anxiety. And so it, it, we, we tend to mask it by leaning into working so into, into business, into, oh, I just have so much to do with instead of actually dealing with what's going on inside. So with, I'm seeing a, a decline, especially among male. Well off people in, in, it's not much, but it's, it's like an hour or two, a week of less work, which could be as a result of the pandemic, because a lot of people actually had a chance to slow down a little bit and kind of ask themselves like, what, what does really matter? And, and prioritize their, help their families time, time outside of works.

[00:10:31] Milena: Maybe find a different identity on the other side, um, because of the pandemic and all that fear, um, and kind of. Unknown that we all dealt with, and now the extra pressure of people getting laid off and, um, uncertainty with what's going on, the economy or all of these factors, there's just a lot of stress and, and overwhelm in general.

[00:10:57] Milena: And so, I'm seeing more and more increase in burnout, even though we are talking in, in, it's now a conversation with within companies and leaders. Um, there's more conversations about it, but I just don't feel like the actions are exactly there and it's gonna take time, obviously, to make that shift and, and incorporate more of, um, it's, how do I say?

[00:11:23] Milena: I mean, it's even, um, Wellbeing practices within the, the workplace or just more of an understanding like what's manageable and what's realistic. And when you look at all the science, like you and I were talking in our first scope, all the latest neuroscience, uh, points to the same things that we can only focus for so much.

[00:11:45] Milena: We can only make so many decisions in a day. We can only, you know, we can work with our energy and our bio rhythms to produce the the most. Um, to be the most productive and they're all gonna be different for everybody, right? So when you combine what's going on in general with our society, with the latest science, it's pretty simple to see that.

[00:12:08] Milena: Yeah, wellbeing. There was a survey, I wanna say at the latest research I, I saw is that companies who invest in wellbeing for their employees are 30% more productive than companies who don't. And so we're starting to see all these studies with, you know, four day work week showing that you can get the same amount of work done, if not more when you work.

[00:12:28] Milena: Less whole countries deciding to go on a four day work week. It's obviously not gonna work for everybody, but it shows that, uh, and now with ai, um, it shows that, um, there's a lot of work that can be saved or delegated or automated, or not even necessarily needs to get done, but sometimes we kind of chase our own tails.

[00:12:55] Scott: Yeah, yeah. You were saying about, um, companies, they're definitely talking about it and, but as you said, the actions need to. To follow. So what you obviously don't want is a company paying lip service to it, and then you or I leave after giving some advice and then nothing changes and. You said about wellbeing for the employees, the leaders can make or break that, can't they?

[00:13:23] Scott: So I, I was a previous guest, it was quite a while ago now, and I was shocked, I dunno why I was shocked, but to hear that there's people they help and you may have come across this as well, that the leaders are like, wow, we'll burn them at the, the mindset was almost, well when they burn out we'll just replace 'em with somebody else.

[00:13:42] Scott: And that's pretty scary. And, um,

[00:13:46] Scott: nodding. I'm guessing you, you are still seeing that,

[00:13:49] Milena: I mean I'm gonna be uh very vulnerable here and say that I used to have that philosophy with my own team, you know, wanting a marketing agency when I was hiring young people. And, um, that, that used to be part in my philosophy as well, you know, young people, I'll train them and, and if they don't, I'm not willing to put in the work that it takes, then I'll just hire someone else.

[00:14:11] Milena: And I also know, and it's easy to do the math that it cost you. A lot of money to train some, somebody new. I wanna say it's three times the amount of, of the, the, of the first person. And so there is a financial impact to that, uh, philosophy. Not only to talk about the human impact of it, but, um, it's, uh, yeah, there is, there is that philosophy.

[00:14:36] Milena: I also see that from a. Human from an individual perspective. If the company has no loyalty towards you, then why should you have loyalty towards the company? And so I do see people, you know, becoming an entrepreneur or taking their autonomy in their hands, right? It's, it goes both ways. And, um, when I advocate for that human-centric culture, I fully understand how leaders would be very, very concerned with the bottom line with performance.

[00:15:05] Milena: With stakeholders, and that's why leaning into more of a lately past couple years, I've been leaning more into this Daoism philosophy, which really is about how do you live in harmony with yourself, with others, and with the universe. And so conscious capitalism kind of follows that standards. And when you look at companies that are actually doing good for employees, doing good for their stakeholders, doing good for the planet, Seem to do really well.

[00:15:34] Milena: Millennials and Gen Z want to believe and work with a company that aligns with their values. And so companies like Patagonia or Ben and Jerry, um, have great philosophies around how to do business, do good and, and do good for the humans that work for that company and for the planet at the same time. So, Maybe there's a, a next level capitalism model that can evolve and, and adapt and, um, would be a better way for all of us to create more sustainable success.

[00:16:09] Scott: Hmm. Yeah, there's definitely a lot to be said for being in a job that is something that rewards you, not just financially, but also, you know, getting up in the morning thinking, actually I've made a difference today. And, you know, I was in public sector for a long time and that was really quite easy to keep remembering.

[00:16:28] Scott: Actually, we're doing good here. We're trying to help people in time of need. Um, rather than just making loads of

[00:16:36] Milena: at Yeah. and look at

[00:16:41] Milena: um there was a meta report on the American Dream is looking at external factors You know money does that really bring you happiness Does that bring you wellbeing versus intrinsic motivated motivating factors such as purpose and autonomy and flexibility um and a huge discrepancy between the two So people value more intrinsic motivating motivating factors So if somebody's like how do I increase engagement for my employees Um moneys only get you so far Yeah Everybody needs to cover their bills Everybody needs to put foot on the table but at a certain point money doesn't motivate you anymore So there's other ways that you can incorporate in your company that would actually motivate people a lot more and don't cost that much

[00:17:32] Scott: ,So you mentioned a few areas that you helped. One of them was biohacking, which caught my, um, Attention. Can you tell us a bit more about that?

[00:17:42] Scott: dunno what that is. You,

[00:17:46] Milena: Side No no no no So biohacking is part my training I train with the human potential uh coaching Institute which was um co-founded by Bulletproof Institute And that's if you've heard about Bulletproof Coffee maybe where 

[00:18:04] Scott: to tell you what though. I've heard of

[00:18:06] Milena: Yeah you butter blend it and it turns into you know your brain needs actually fat in the morning so you can function better Cognitive cognitive ability um the actual biohacking term means controlling your internal or external environment so that you can be an optimal state So so whether that's you know drinking bulletproof coffee in the morning or figuring your sleep Uh so you can sleep better or doing cold therapy to help you control stress or changing your environment You know changing your external environment so that you feel better so you can function better So biohacking uh could be um I don't take it to the extreme of you know blood transfusions cuz some people do But uh but biohacking is just um It's hard to live optimally from a mind body and soul perspective What do you need Having the awareness if you combine that with mindfulness is like having the awareness to know what your body needs at any point so that you can function at an optimal level on a very simple simple terms right So are you hungry Are you thirsty Do you need to exercise Do you need to meditate When you wake up in the morning how do you feel How do you function And having all the tools in your toolbox to know what to reach out to uh whether that's I need to fix my um diet I need to fix my health issue so I can have more vitality have more energy I I need to tune more into my chronotype so that um I can I know when to do my deep work and I know when to do more meetings and that's not obviously doable for everybody in a company Setup a little bit more when you work from home but doing being more in tune attuned and in tune with your with your inner world And that's partly an individual responsibility right company can create the training can offer the resources can create the tools It also takes a personal responsibility to say I don't feel at a hundred percent what do I need to do to get to a hundred percent

[00:20:23] Scott: That's helpful. I was, I just had images of like people having implants stuck into them. So it's quite there yet. I'm sure that's, well, some are already dabbling with that, aren't they?

[00:20:34] Scott: some people take it to an extreme I at it from a perspective of 

[00:20:37] Milena: what kind of foods what do I need to put in my body What does my body need What does my mind need What does my soul need in order to to say okay I feel I feel good I'm functioning Yeah I suffered from chronic digestive problems for you know 20 years probably due to stress And so I had to figure figure it out and and lifestyle and and diet and sleep These are really basic um things that we need to tap into on a day-to-day basis obviously to continue living And um there's different ways that you can look at what you're putting in your body And what's the energy that you wanna have So you can you can feel good The idea is are you feeling good Are you having fun Are you healthy Right

[00:21:23] Milena: It was a huge for me is when I saw how I can actually um Do a lot work a lot less and be much much higher performing individual when I'm fully aligned and when I show up at a hundred percent clear mind clear focus clear energy um and and just go right But then have a cl also time to rest and recover and or cooperate And there is biohacking in these areas too You know sometimes we think that oh I'm gonna Shut the computer down and and and cover a day and we chips on on the couch and watch tv And that's not necessarily um how you recover You know you may need active leisure where you actually tap into flow state or some kind of creative pursuit or or something that engages your mind in a defined level so you can actually rejuvenate and and come back You know feeling good Now there's also a dark side there Let's not do everything with the idea of what's the final outcome right And to make to make us small Let's not do everything to make us more productive Let's just also have have the awareness and uh and the space and to let our minds wander and and daydream and and do these things right that are just purely human

[00:22:47] Scott: just exist to work, do we? We've gotta get that balance. 

[00:22:51] Milena: Yeah exactly 

[00:22:52] Scott: if you do

[00:22:53] Scott: tied into you could do a job you love, doesn't feel like

[00:22:57] Milena: But if you're doing a creative 

[00:22:58] Scott: uh if you're in 

[00:22:59] Scott: marketing or in 

[00:23:00] Milena: tech and you're doing creative job your brain needs time to to make these new connections You know you need that that idle time for your brain to to find your neurons to see solutions from a different perspective to come up with with new ideas that you won't necessarily do while you're sitting on your computer So Yeah it's a very productive downtime but at the same time uh maybe you just need the downtime for the downtime

[00:23:27] Scott: Yeah. And that's sometimes when you get your best ideas, isn't it? You, you'll know. I'm sure I'll do it a, a massive disservice. I, I'd heard something about, you know, we bizarrely get sometimes our best ideas in the shower and it's something to do with your brains being very slightly stimulated by the water, but your mind wanders and I've totally, probably ruined

[00:23:49] Scott: you know more about exactly what that Explain it much better than me.

[00:23:52] Milena: Yeah I mean there's actually a huge connection between 

[00:23:55] Scott: and the mines 

[00:23:57] Milena: Um there's a guy out of Santa Cruz uh who wrote a book called Blue Mind and he researched how the ocean uh affects the the brain but it's not just the ocean it's also having a shower or just being surrounded by water because we are 70% water And so there's this huge connection between calming the mine while you are in water Then there's also a huge connection on the vagus nerve Uh which runs from your head down your spine which controls your nervous system And so when you have hot water on it it actually counts down the nervous system So now we have two different things going on in favor of being able to To calm down right So sometimes I feel like if you have no other way to relax at the end of the day probably taking a a warm shower is probably a really good way to to calm down and be able to to relax right To relax your nervous system And when you combine that with the pure fact that you're probably not bringing your phone with you in the shower some people do But you're probably not So you have nothing to do but be there Then you are allowing your mind to wander and that's why you come up with great ideas

[00:25:23] Scott: Brilliant. Yeah, that's much better than my version of trying to explain that. So, uh, if someone's listening to this and they. Are, this is really resonating and thinking, yeah, I'm just burnt out, and they come to you and obviously sign up to your program and get your help. But have you got any tips for listeners that this is resonating with, like some initial

[00:25:47] Scott: things 

[00:25:47] Milena: got so many I mean um one thing I started to do so I went from a huge um hustler right Go go go from the minute I wake up grab my phone check my emails check social media I was also in charge of a lot of social media accounts with different clients And with that I immediately would go into reactive mode Now I um Some mornings like we were talking I'm working on my book so I would use the morning time to work on my book cuz I I have my creativity is highest in the morning but I have this really um slow mornings I call 'em the un hule morning So I'll give you the I and I call it the sunrise method And this is all again combination of biohacking science proven rituals practices You don't have to do all of them at the same time The main goal here is to create your own rituals and start your morning slower with time for yourself to check in with yourself even if it's 10 breath in bed and say Hey how you how am I feeling Because every morning our energy is different Our minds different our motions are different So the sunrise method that I came up with is s stands for um sunlight So getting some some sunlight in the morning on your face It actually helps with melatonin and allows you to fall asleep early Um better easier that night So I've struggled with insomnia Um anxiety at night So I realized that getting sun if you can on your body but just maybe you you on your face um is very helpful Use stands for unplugged so making sure that you don't touch your phone in the morning Really hard to do for most of us but um You can do it for at least the first few minutes of the day and it's for time in nature If you're lucky to live where there is nature or can connect with the sky or something to just have that mindful moment appreciation gratitude while you're connecting with the world Our stance for reading and writing There is a lot of science that points to the fact that um just journaling can stimulate um your creativity But also it's a great uh therapy tool for just um having like eon therapist if you wish because no one needs to read your journal But if you have a little bit of time I'm talking five 10 minutes a day you know um morning some people do morning pages It it can be like three three pages three short small pages on the journal I is fulfilling intentions for the day So what's critical What needs to what needs to get done What are the 2 3 5 things that if you get done you'll feel good and accomplish and can cover a day Because work never ends And and without a clear go of in mind as to what how you gonna consider the day a win then we can work until we drop dead Right So um That's the intention part And um as tense for stillness That's your mindfulness meditation You can have a practice prayer whatever it is a few minutes and instance per energy that's like you if that's what you're into or you Bulletproof coffee sounds like a lot but you can compact it Stack stack all the rituals on top of each other Do your you know mindfulness session while you're outside in nature You can do some exercise you know quick quick movement with your body So I had to To figure out with everything I was researching and reading what works for me and I came up with with this little methodology and and people seem to really enjoy it So if if you take anything out of this conversation that's starting your day with time for yourself with with clear intentions as to what you wanna accomplish cuz not everything takes priority What is the one thing that really would move the needle Um instead of getting into the busy work of responding to emails And um taking care of your mind body And so at the same time you know in the morning and then having some evening rituals as well to kind of calm down from the day and um and be able to get good sleep I think uh is is also important

[00:29:58] Scott: Brilliant. That's really helpful. Thank you. So one of the questions I asked all my guests is if you could take one book with you to a desert

[00:30:08] Milena: Wow Interesting Um 

[00:30:10] Scott: I 

[00:30:11] Milena: have this book here It's on creativity Elizabeth Gilbert big Magic

[00:30:19] Scott: Pig Magic. Okay.

[00:30:21] Milena: Yep 

[00:30:22] Scott: How are you reading it? Are you still reading it or have you finished it?

[00:30:25] Milena: I've read it And um I do enjoy her her read uh her writing quite a bit So yeah I have read it on kind of rereading some some passages from it 

[00:30:36] Scott: it about? Just a quick overview. Why, why, why'd you like 

[00:30:40] Milena: about 

[00:30:40] Scott: creative living Beyond fear creativity 

[00:30:45] Milena: um, can be a very interesting place. Creative living in general is a place I wanna move into more and more with, with my own life. Um, and creativity is an interesting, uh, Place that, um, can be also very scary because we, we get very much, uh, into self-doubt and imposter syndrome and fear, uh, of not putting our craft out there.

[00:31:12] Milena: And it works also for a lot of the clients that, that I work with. It's the exact same thing. We, um, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of self-doubt, there's a lot of, um, procrastination, parsis analysis. And so how we move past this, is with courage and persistent and discipline and grit and um, and putting the work out there, right?

[00:31:35] Milena: So it's the exact same. Method that I use with, with my client's. Uh, courage being a big factor is if somebody's wanting to redesign their life or lean into the work that actually matters. The whole reason we lean into business and checking emails is because we have fear of actually dealing with the projects that move the needle at the end of the day.

[00:32:00] Milena: And it's much easier from a dopamine perspective with our brains to say, I'm gonna just respond to all these emails because people need me and I wanna feel like I'm helpful in supporting my tribe and I'm gonna check off, uh, a lot of things off my, my plate and gonna feel good because I'm getting the document.

[00:32:18] Milena: But it's a lot harder to say there's a huge project that is waiting for me to get done and I need to take the first step to do it. So in all of this, um, we share the commonalities of, of fear and, and imposter syndrome and procrastination. So, From that perspective, um, she sets a good example of how to deal with, with that fear.

[00:32:41] Scott: Brilliant. Thank you. So if anyone wants

[00:32:45] Scott: you or get in touch, what's the best way for them 

[00:32:49] Milena: Yeah, everything is on my 

[00:32:52] Scott: to 

[00:32:52] Milena: can, uh, get in touch with me there and, um, Listen to the podcast or, uh, do some fun exercises. I have a newsletter they can sign up for. It's oh@unle.com.

[00:33:04] Scott: Brilliant. I'll get those

[00:33:07] Scott: Mela, it's been great chatting Chief. Thanks for being on show. 

[00:33:10] Milena: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

[00:33:13] Scott: A big, thank you for listening to the Rebel Diaries show your time is precious, so it is appreciated. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to hit that subscribe button in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss the next one. There's a new episode every Monday morning, ideal for your commute to work or early morning walk. 

[00:33:30] Scott: Until next time, take care be a rebel and deliver work with impact.